The Whole Lawyer Podcast

AE (00:00.674)
Welcome back to another episode of The Whole Lawyer. I am your host, Akeem D. Earl, and we have another very special episode for you today. We are answering the question: should you go to law school part-time? But before we get into that, please like, share, and subscribe to the podcast. It helps grow the channel. We are on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts, we are there.

When you subscribe and share it, it helps us grow the channel, and we can give you more great content just like this. Now, should you go to law school part-time? And I'm going to answer the question how you would hear most lawyers answer it and answer most questions. Is it depends? It literally depends. I would have to like sit down with with each individual person, hear their story, hear their setup, and be like,

Yeah, that makes sense. Nah, you probably should go full time. Yada yada yada. So I'm going to share my story. And if you can take anything from it to make a decision, I will be a happy camper, and that's all I want to do. So, yes, I went to law school as a part time student. my classmate consistently reminds me whenever I say part time, that it is not part time because there was nothing part time about it, it was a full time curriculum.

squeezed into the evening. So we call ourselves evening students. So let's let's make that adjustment first. If you plan on going to if you if you don't plan on being a full-time student, you are evening student, not a part-time student, because that prepares you for the workload that it truly is. So I went to law school for four years. That is the normal timeline if you choose not to be a full-time student because you you're taking less credits per semester. So it's going to take you longer obviously to finish.

I think the maths you could take as an evening student is 12 credits. And I think for a full-time student, you could take 15 a semester or even more. You don't have that opportunity to do that as an evening student. So I went to law school for four years. I went to the University of DC, David A. Clark School of Law, the HBCU out of DC. Come on, son. Gang, gang, gang. and hands down, I believe one of the best evening programs in the entire country. And I was so blessed to be there and graduate there.

AE (02:24.94)
gradu graduate from I was so blessed to be there and graduate from there with honor. So proud of that. And I chose to go to law school as an evening student, not because I planned to. That was not the plan. I worked as an intern for my aunt slash mentor at her law office and we spoke about it before I even took the L set, I believe.

And it wasn't even a thought in my mind, but somehow we were talking about full time versus evening programs. And she was like, just go full time, just get out the way, get it done, go right out to college and just get out the way so you can just start your law career. I like, Bet, that's all I'm do. And this is a a good example of how life just be life in what they say, God man makes plans and God's and God laughs, like.

On this journey, when you become when you on this journey to becoming a lawyer, you can't hold so tightly onto your plans because things are going to come along, people are gonna come along that can completely shift them. so I'm finishing out college, I go to my student advisor person, and he's like, you actually have like a couple more credits to to.

To complete because I transferred colleges. So I had some extra credits to finish. So I had to take another semester. So I'm like, dang. So what's going on? Well, like, what am I gonna do?

So

AE (04:03.842)
When I found out I had some extra credits to complete and had to take another fall semester, I was I was really just in the process of like, I'm like, man, I'm gonna have to just enroll for the semester, look at dorms again. All these things were going through my mind. I go to class and people are like, somebody's handing out flyers for something called the Washington Center. And I take the flyer and it's basically a program in DC. Mind you, I was going to school in Pennsylvania. I've been to DC.

once in my life for a school field trip in like the eighth grade. I'm in Pennsylvania. There's this program called the Washington Center that's based in DC that basically takes college students in DC. There they have like a campus in DC and they place you in different programs. I forgot the name of it, but it's like they have like different pathways. So they have pathways for medicine, law, engineering, all these different type things. And you basically have to like do internships and externships. So you have to like get an internship,

You're gonna be at this internship, but you also have like a report back to the Washington Center. You have classes on campus and all these different things. It was a dope setup. So I said, yo, this is this is pretty dope. So I went to my student advisor, my student counselor. I was like, yo, can I just do my final semester here? Like, can I just go to DC and do my last semester? And God made a way and it worked out. I was able to do my last semester. I didn't have to go back on campus. I just go to DC and then also do an internship in my field.

The internship that I got was at the office of the attorney general for DC. It's basically the state attorney's office for DC that represents DC through criminal matters, civil matters, all these different types of things. And honestly, before I got the job, I was like, this would be before I even got the internship. Knowing that I was about to graduate, this was my last semester of college, I was like, this would be dope if this can turn into a job. Because if I like DC and I like this internship.

I'll just stay. I need a job anyway. Like I I'm gonna be looking for jobs anyway. Like if I could just parlay this into a job, this would dope. And that's exactly what happened. I worked hard, made connections, and I got a a paralegal job opened up. And shout out to this

AE (06:20.3)
The only way

To be truly successful in this career is if you depend on people. And I know, especially as lawyers, we could be very type A and go-getters and think that we could do this all on our own. But when I look back on my story and my experiences, there was not one success I had that didn't involve someone helping me. That didn't involve somebody taking a chance on me. If even if it was simply

Sending me a program or sending me a job site. Those little things helped me tremendously. So at this internship, I made a great connection with an attorney. And at the end, those literally like a couple weeks left, she was like, yo, this prior legal position opened up. Apply, apply, apply. And I applied and I got it. So now I'm in DC, recent college graduate. I'm in DC working at this dope job.

Downtown DC working at the state attorney's office. And I'm the plan is still law school. The plan is still to go to law school. And mind you, so this whole time I'm still like full time student, full time student. I end up taking a gap year after college because I'm working. I'm making good money. I'm in a whole new city. I'm experiencing a new city, making new friends, making new building a new com community. I was like, let me just take some time.

Study for I think I already took the LSAT, but let me just take some time, work, apply for law schools, yada, yada, yada. So I'm applying to full-time programs, and then UDC comes along. I see their evening program. I go to like a seminar at on campus. I loved it. Talk to some professors. UDC was the one. And I had to ask myself, this job that I have right now, the experiences that I'm making, the attorneys that I'm working with, should I give this all up?

AE (08:20.288)
And just go full time into law school. And to be honest with you, it it wasn't a huge decision to make. I'm like a hold you usually with big decisions like that. Like I talk to my parents, I talk to some mentors, I talk to friends and close family. But this one, I don't even think I talked to many people. I was like, this felt like a no-brainer. I'm like, I'm going to keep this job because I'm getting hands-on experience. I'm working in the field, I'm drafted interrogatories.

Request for production of documents. I was in the civil litigation section just to give some context. In the civil section, I'm I'm I'm helping build like case folders and trial binders. Mind you, I'm fresh in it. I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'll figure it out as I go along, but I loved it. I love that process of learning real office work, real office etiquette, and I'm learning the law. So my thought process was why give this up just to do

Not just to, but to go full time and miss out on real world practical hands-on experience. Cause if you remember, back in the day, before there would there was a time where the law school didn't exist, you would just shadow an attorney. You would just be a a a mini me, you'll just be an intern and do an externship or whatever. App apprenticeships, all right? You just do an apprenticeship and you'll become a lawyer. You just learn under somebody, right? All right, and they'll just night you. All right, you know enough, you're a lawyer now.

so I think I think nothing beats hands-on real world experience. Because when I go when you go to law school full-time, you have to do internships anyway. So you're gonna have to take time to get real world experience anyway. And I was already doing it and getting paid more than I ever got paid before to do it. So that was a no-brainer for me. So I would say the first tip for you, I would say the biggest tip for why you should go to law school.

As an evening student, is if you already have a job in the field. And mainly if you are a paralegal or a legal assistant or a clerk, and you're getting paid, and you're in a state where there's good evening programs there, I would strongly advise to keep your job, work, get the experience, and go to law school part time.

AE (10:40.738)
Because there's even some jobs who might even pay for your law school. Like those are things to look into and and how your job can assist you in even making it through law school. maybe not financially, but being able to like work around your schedule, giving you some leeway. And I think that's another point too, and another big point too. Even though you might have a job in the legal field, if it's not conducive to your learning, I would say go full time.

For my job, they were very understanding. They were very helpful. when I got the job in the interview, they knew and and I told them, hey, my goal is to be a lawyer. I'm this is temporary. I want to be a paralegal. I want this job. I'm work hard, but I will be going to law school and that's the ultimate goal. They said, bet. So they knew. So I'll be I could study. I and I I could, but I was studying while I was there. I had my textbooks. I wasn't like trying to hide like under the desk and read.

Like if I finish an assignment and I or I was at lunch or I was just at my desk, not really do it's kind slow, I would have no issue pulling out my my textbook and reading or going over cases. That was not a problem. Also, the big help that my job gave me was and this was the caveat I was talking about in the beginning about whether or not you can if this was the caveat I was talking about in the beginning that all your

Classes will be in the evening, and that is true. The caveat is if your job allows for differently. So for me, there was a class that was only taken, that was only it was a full, it was a day. There was a class that was a daytime class. And that was held at like 11 a.m. And it was at the time the dean of the school was holding that class. It was a crime pro class taught by Dean Hutchins. So I had to shout out to Dean Hutchins.

And I was like, I really want to take crime pro with Dean Hutchins. So I went to my job. I was like, listen, can I take my lunch, go to class at my lunch break, and then come back? And there might be 15 minutes here and there, but I'll definitely like work later that day to make up for that time. Because if I take the daytime class at 11, I won't have my evening class obviously in the evening that starts at 6 15. So my job was

AE (13:04.46)
Very amicable to that, and I'm grateful for stuff like that. So that leads me to schedule. What will your schedule be like as an evening student? So, like I said before, all your most of your classes will be in the evening. You would have about four classes a week. My classes were for from 6:15 to 9:15. I even like pulled up my bit my bizorgs syllabus and

My bizarre's class was on Wednesdays from 6:15 to 9:15. Like I told y'all, this is going to be a grind. This ain't no joke. And this is four times a week.

This is

AE (14:43.822)
So with classes, so with classes being from 615 to 915, four times a week, you're working eight hour days. That already tells you what type of grind this is. And what you need to know about being an evening student is that you are going to have to work your butt off. This is not going to be easy. It is not easy, but it is very possible. I didn't even fully know whether or not I had it in me.

To do four years of law school. I didn't really like sit down to like take the time to figure out like, can I manage this schedule? Mind you, I was still very active in my church. I was playing jump drums on Sunday. I had practice, band practice on Thursday evenings. I had I was hanging out with friends on Saturdays. I still had my happy hours and and and work friends and children people at work, children people at school.

Still, this is a whole I'll get to that later. But life was still happening while working full time and going to law school as an evening student. Now, I don't know that this made me think about like for people who don't work full-time and want to do an evening program, maybe you you have children or you're taking care of somebody that doesn't allow you to do it in the daytime.

I can't speak to that or or or say like how manageable that will be, but just know when you're juggling multiple things along with law school, it's a grind. It's gonna be a lot of work. You have to be dedicated, and your time matters. You have to use your time very meticulously. And like I said, I would be briefing cases during my lunch hour. I'll be reading over cases at any downtime because I realize I knew that.

I have class that evening. And if I was at practice the night before, I didn't have time to do it. Or I was in class last night, so I didn't have time to read my cases last night. I have to do it during the daytime. So that's a the so the so the schedule matters. Your schedule matters. Before you decide to become a evening student, make sure you you you settle in your brain that your schedule will be packed.

AE (17:05.9)
And it'll be helpful for you if you don't have any time management skills. This will be a perfect time for you to get some. Like literally get a calendar, write out your day, write work, your eight-hour block, and then you write your class block, and then you fit in where can I do the kid? Where can I hang out with my wife? When can I hang out with my children? When can I call my mom? When can I eat my food? Like all that stuff matters. All that stuff has to be factored in.

Because once you start this program, it's gonna be a grind. It's gonna be a grind.

AE (17:46.383)
Part of that grind is the weekends. Your weekends no longer belong to you. And I know I said hang out with friends on Saturday. Don't don't I know I and I know I said I hung out with friends on Saturday. Don't do as I do, do as I say. Listen, man, I was in DC, your boy had to still have a life. But

My your weekends do not belong to you. And for most weekends, it did not belong to me either. I had to say no to a lot of stuff. I had to say no to a lot of stuff. During that time, I didn't go on vacation. I I don't I don't know I I don't remember a time when I went away, went overseas, went on some week long vacation. I did not do vacations while I was in law school. So if I did hang out on the weekend, it was because I got I need a break. I'ma chill this weekend because I wasn't going nowhere. Law school was my life. So on the weekends

That's the time to study, especially if it's finals time. I'm in the, I'm in the I'm in my school's library from like about 10 a.m. to two p.m., four p.m., depending on how busy it is and how much stuff we have to do. And that's you you're in that library all day Saturday. And that was normal. And if you have time, or if you were really crunched, again, I've seen this too. you're in there on Sunday too.

your weekends are no longer yours. So that's that's definitely part of it. Now the hardest part

AE (19:24.27)
All right, let's talk about what you gain. What do you gain from being an eveningslash part-time student? Specifically, if you're working full-time in the legal field, if you're working as a paralegal or legal assistant, the pros, these are what you gain from working and going to law school. You are in your networking bag. All right, you are in the midst of it.

Again, specifically for me in DC, just like the amount of opportunity, the amount of dope people there, the amount of dope black legal professionals there, judges, legal assistants, lawyers, amazing opportunity. Just the fact that I was in that mix was just a blessing in and of itself. I get to work, I get to I get I I lawyers were able to see my work ethic. When you're a law student being full time, I always say this whenever you're trying to network.

network with people in law school, it's hard because you don't have anything to offer. This is a very quid pro quo type of business. And as a law student, it you it's hard sometimes to network because you feel like let if I can do something for you, then you'll be able to do something for me. That at least that's how I approach it sometimes. And as a law student, you ain't got nothing. You're taking finals, you're just asking, asking, asking Can I get your number? Can I have a coffee? Can I get this job?

Can get this internship? Can I get that outline? Whatever it may be, you're always asking. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. And lawyers know that. If a lawyer was like, well, what can you do for me? If a lawyer ever told a law student, what can you do for me? That'll be crazy. Okay. Like there's something wrong with that person. But innately, you feel like I don't want to just be taking, taking, taking. I to give, give, give. When you work while you're going to law school, you have more to offer.

And not from the sense of like I could get you set up this with this here and here. You offer your work ethic. You can show lawyers your work. Literally. So while I'm on my job, I was mindful of the assignments that I got because this was me auditioning. This was me showing my work. This was me showing, hey, this guy knows how to get stuff done on time. This guy does what good work. I can depend on this guy. So it's not always like a tangible thing or like.

AE (21:47.767)
Let me let me get you the highest office or the biggest job in the world. But sometimes you can offer dependability. You can rely on me. And that's huge to offer while you're in law school. And I was able to leverage that later down the road. So when you when you're thinking about becoming an evening student and you're wondering if you should quit your job or not, ask yourself whether or not you'll be able to get get get opportunities like that being a full-time student to show your work ethic, not just in

Law school, not just because a civil litigation lawyer does not care how well you're able to brief a case. They care whether or not we are able to get all the discovery and whether or not this is responsive or this motion doesn't didn't doesn't have this typo, or we found good law on this thing that's helped support their case. Like they need stuff that actually helps their case. So being in position to actually show the dependability is is a huge con.

I mean sorry, is a huge pro. Along with that, you my

Paralegal career aided in my law school career. Now it wasn't a direct one-to-one, but specifically in my Civ Pro class, I had a good base for that because I was working in civil litigation. So when my professor, shout out to Professor Fraden, when my professor would say certain terms or lay out certain things, I was like, I could piece it together because I'm I'm at work working in that flow. I already know the process, right?

But it wasn't like, it wasn't as clear to me as like what I was doing. And you you will learn this when you get into these jobs. Like they throw you in at point Y. And they might come back to A, B, C later. And then you gotta go to F and you gotta jump to Z. It's like it's a whole bunch of stuff. And then sometimes for me, I'm a visual learner. I was like, yo, just show me from A to Z and tell me where I'm at and let me know where I can work from. Working and going to

AE (23:51.213)
To law school, put piece that all together. I saw what the bird's eye view was. I saw what the macro, what the minor things were. Also working, I was able to see what thing what things that really didn't matter in real practice. A lot of stuff you learn in law school, they have to teach you the basics. They have to teach the foundation. But a lot of the stuff that they teach you, the that a lot of the stuff that they teach you, people no longer practice in real daily life. They teach you a lot of common law.

And people, most states don't use common law. And a lot of these offices are working on very specific specific statutes. And and law school doesn't teach you off of specific stat statutes. They teach you very bird's eye view type of things. So I was able to see the macro and the minor stuff all in one and being able to implement it in my my paralegal job and being able to use that and implement that in my law school career. And that was very, very helpful.

Helpful. Now, the cons, the downsides of being an evening law school student, obviously, one, it takes longer. If you are someone who needs to be up out of here, like, yo, I need to be three years and done, being a part-time student is not for you. It takes four years. If you're willing to endure an another year of law school, then go for it. So that's a con. It just takes longer. Another con is that.

You do miss out on things. you do miss out on OCIs on campus interviews. That's which is huge. And I know people who are trying to get into big law. That's a very, very important. So I definitely understand that. I actually have a friend from law school who had a a really good job in the financial sector before going to law school. He quit his job and went to law school full time because big law was important to him and he wanted to take advantage of those opportunities. So that makes complete sense.

Internships. Not for again, not for me. I'm a crazy person. I managed to get an inter to get multiple internships while I was working full time and going to law school. Don't ask me how I squeezed it in. I just did. And again, if you want something, man, you will find a way. You will ask the questions. You will make the request. You will talk to people. You will figure it out. I knew that I can't.

AE (26:16.384)
As as much as I I I cherished and I valued my full time job and I knew that it would look great on the resume, I knew that I needed more. I knew that at the end of law school I couldn't just have paralegal law student. That kid that couldn't be it. So I found internships. I was able to squeeze it in. And this was also during COVID. I was also hard to say blessed, but I was blessed for that time to happen because everything was work from home. So I was able to get an internship and

Do work from home and again squeeze in hours and do things here and there. And the internships and the internships that I got were very flexible around my work schedule. but I but being an evening student, you do miss out on a lot of internships because internships, a lot of internships do solely focus and operate in the daytime or require you to be a full-time student to even take the internship. And then sometimes the internships work with your law school to.

To bake make your schedule all these different types of things, you do miss out on a lot of those things. being a evening student. I and for us, honestly, the biggest thing me and my friends who were in the evening program had was that sometimes the schools don't cater to evening students. All right. You are the ugly stepchild of the law school. I love my law school to death, but this was a constant concern and and and

request is like, yo, can we have a evening student evening program like karaoke night? Can we have a even speaking with like the different student organizations that, yo, can y'all put together something something for the evening students, whatever? Or if there was an event, like, hey, can you make it like at six o'clock on this day, even though people might still be in class, but like, can you at least create the opportunity for evening students to come and network and enjoy each other and commune? And that's a hard thing to do.

for a lot of law schools because their focus is solely on daytime programs. That's when they're working. That's when the the administrators are working and puts putting stuff together. If you're talking about anything 6 p.m, 6 p.m to 9 p.m. they gone. They at home. They chill it. So evening students, you can be treated like an ugly stepchild. But also from their point of view, I went to s I was my classmates were former nurses, were full time

AE (28:43.682)
were were full time like chief legal assistants at their law firm, had previous careers, had multiple children, had a whole family, they were killing it, right? So I think from for from perspective for law students, for I so I think from law school's perspectives, they're probably like, listen, I know y'all just trying to get it out the mud. I know y'all just trying to do what y'all gotta do.

Maybe they don't need all the stuff. They don't need all the flares that the the full time law students need. Let's just focus on them and like let's just let the lost the evening law students focus, get their work done, and go home. And I could understand that, but I also feel like evening students still want to feel a part of the student body and they also want access to the same amount of opportunities as the daytime students can. And it's har it's tough because there's only so many so many hours in the day. So

It that was a constant struggle. So be be prepared, depending again again, depending on your law school, these are the questions that you ask. Like, what do you have set up for evening students to network, to build relationships, to build community? And if it's like, you don't got nothing, then that's a bad that's that's a red flag. that's a red flag.

AE (30:28.278)
AE (30:45.646)
All right. So I wanna I wanna walk you through my a typical day. for me, my tour of duty probably started at like eight thirty AM. So I'll get to work for eight thirty, work until five PM. Again, I worked in DC. So luckily for me, I l I worked on the red line and my law school was also on the red line. And by red line, people who are from DC you under you just, you know.

And by the red line, I mean the train station. People from DC, if you know, you know. The train station, the train ride for me was like about four or five stops. Again, another opportunity for me to cram in case case briefs before my class started. So look, so I was blessed to be able to, I just take a one shot to my class, to to law school, and I still have like a good 30 minutes buffer.

depending on how busy work was. If work was busy, busy, there were definitely some days where I'm at work till like 5 30 and I'm rushing to class. Like I get to class like right before it starts. but usually I have enough time to go get some food, settle in, and then be in class for three hours and then get out at 9 15. Sometimes professors will let you out a little early. that was rare and it was celebrated every time it happened.

But you'll be out 9 15 and then I I go home, get ready for bed, and do it again the next day. This is every week. again, like I said, it's only four times. So you four times a week, so you do have like one day, one night off. so that was a typical, typical day. And again, I think I I also feel like I just had the energy for it.

I want people to understand and be mindful of the responsibilities that you have and understand how much capacity you have to juggle this thing. Because there were definitely students I started law school with in the evening program that didn't complete it. We came back next semester, and me and my friends were like, yo, where's where such and such? Where's so and so? couldn't do it. And that could have been for various reasons. It could have been like for academic.

AE (33:01.302)
Reasons, it could have been for capacity reasons, but I know for sure there were some people who was like, There's just too much. just couldn't do it. So

AE (33:22.552)
So definitely

AE (33:27.374)
So defin so definitely be mindful of your capacity to do it and asking yourself, how bad do you want it? Like I told you, I went to school with somebody who had like five children. I called it like super bomb. And you're you're you're balancing family, you're balancing work, you're balancing sickness, your health, your money, your finances, all these different types of things.

And it is a grind. Speaking of finances, it is cheaper. That's a that's another pro. It is definitely cheaper to do evening programs. I was and and then you could also take advantage of state price and being an evening student along with scholarships. So for me, I basically went to law school for free because I lived in DC, so I got the state price. I was an evening student, cheaper tuition.

And I got scholarships. So take advantage of those things to make it work for you. But I would say if you want the full law school experience, if you want OCIs, you want we want on campus interviews, if you want to take full advantage of the student organizations, again, that's another thing you miss out on when you're an evening student. You don't you don't get as much chances to like be in student orgs or to participate as much in in as a full-time student, but you definitely can. I I joined Balsa and a bunch of different programs and I participated in them.

But again, it's only s you only have limited time to work on it and be engulfed in it. So be mindful of those things. and if you're and if your eye is set on a specific job, like you want to work in a specific area, make sure you talk to people in those fields. Like, hey, how do you feel about people who went part-time or full time? And if I go part-time, sh what what should I be doing on my job? Like, make sure you ask the questions.

before before you you embark on the journey. For me, it worked out perfectly. I wouldn't have it any other way. I am evening student till I D I E. I love my journey. Anytime I run into somebody who also went to law school for four years, we just have this it's a connection, it's family. Cause I know the struggle, I know the grind, but you can make it. It's doable. Like I said, it is not easy, but it's very, very possible. So if you have any more questions, put it in the comments.

AE (35:52.78)
If I missed out on anything, if you if there's something I skipped over that I should have gone deeper on, please let me know. I'll definitely make a part two and answer all your questions. Thank you for sitting with me through this. This has been a whole lawyer, and we'll be back. Peace.