The Whole Lawyer Podcast

AE (00:54.913)
Welcome back to another episode of the Whole Lawyer Podcast. And I'm your boy, Akeem D. Earl, and I have my beautiful co-host here with me, Tone Earl. And we're back to give you more gems to make your life better, to make your lawyer life better. You're welcome. But before we do that, before we make you a better person, please like, share, and subscribe to the Whole Lawyer Podcast. We are growing, the community is growing.

Tonee (01:07.074)
Yo yo.

AE (01:23.681)
The content's growing and we thank you guys for rocking with us and helping us bring you guys more amazing content like the ones we have today. And so in order to make that even bigger and better, we're on po we're Apple Podcasts, we're on Spotify, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. When you follow us there and you comment and you and you send people our videos, it helps us grow the pod. And we enjoy giving you this content. So, Mrs. Earl.

What are we talking about today?

Tonee (01:55.129)
Today we are talking about your first court appearance checklist. And we have compiled five things that you should have on your checklist when you are getting ready to go to court. Maybe it's the first when it's the first time, maybe it's like the fifth time.

AE (02:00.939)
Mm-hmm.

AE (02:06.819)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (02:13.164)
But I think these are no brainer things you should always have on your checklist when you're going to court. And if you, you know, recently passed the bar or maybe you're in clinic and you're getting ready to have a court date, we're gonna run through these five things you should put on your checklist. So what is the first thing, Mr. Producer?

AE (02:16.161)
Yeah.

AE (02:26.871)
Yeah.

AE (02:30.669)
Yes.

AE (02:34.441)
Numero uno prep your client, prep yourself. Okay? My dad always would always say prep preparations for prep's funeral is well prepare. Your peas, man. My dad will always say, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Prep your client. Make sure your client is wearing.

Tonee (02:41.251)
Preparation Prep's funeral is well prepared.

Tonee (02:58.392)
Plant to fair

AE (03:04.141)
Clean clothes, make sure your client is showing up on time. Make sure your client knows where the courthouse is. Make sure your client knows what courtroom it is. Whatever documents your client needs to bring. Prep your client. And Tona, you can speak to more to this th than me because I don't yeah, you have clients here.

Tonee (03:16.246)
And yeah. The most important thing about preparing your client is make sure you know what they are going to say. Because if you have not learned this yet, maybe you haven't taken evidence or mock trial yet, you do not ask questions that you do not know the answers to. Okay?

AE (03:30.283)
Mm-hmm.

AE (03:34.784)
Yeah.

Tonee (03:35.803)
So if you haven't asked your client this question, you don't need to be asking it on the stand. Okay. Because that client's probably going to say something you were not prepared to hear and it's going to blow up your whole case. It ain't the time to freeze. I literally, whether you're a pay, whether it was my private, my own personal private practice or I was working in pro bono for legal aid, I would spend probably a

AE (03:39.011)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

It ain't the time to freestyle. It ain't the time to go off the dome. To improvise.

Tonee (04:01.174)
Two or more hours going through my direct and going through potential cross questions to prepare my client on cross too. I and I and I would tell my client, you got five answer options. I don't want to hear nothing else come out of your mouth on cross, but these five potential answer options. Yes, no, I don't know. Repeat the question. I plead the fit. Those are the only five things you can say. And I go through that with my client. I prep them. I make sure my no, you don't. You

AE (04:10.189)
Yeah.

AE (04:15.591)
Yeah.

AE (04:25.389)
But I but I gotta I gotta tell what my auntie said and my my nephew

Tonee (04:29.492)
You told your story already. You told it to me, baby, and I heard it. And I and I heard it. And that's why we go into court to hope. No, nope, nope. It it ain't fair, baby. It ain't. But when you go, because I tell you right now, when clients go off script, when clients go off script, and then we we we in the back, and they're like, man, I was really hoping the judge the judge didn't. I'm like, yeah, if only you would have done what we prepared. Because your clients will do that. You can sit there and and and

AE (04:32.111)
Yeah.

But Mrs. Ur, it ain't fair, cause he he took my son to the park without asking me.

Tonee (04:58.324)
You can sit there for three, four hours preparing your client, your clients are gonna do what their clients are gonna do. But at least you can say, I prepared you for this, and you chose not to do that. So preparing your client, and I would say if you're someone who works in like low bono, pro bono field to piggyback off like the dress, I always tell my clients that don't have a lot of money, where what you will wear to church. And I always preface that like jeans with holes in them, you probably shouldn't be wearing those church. Where what

AE (05:02.391)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, you did your job. Yeah.

AE (05:16.675)
Mm-hmm.

AE (05:26.691)
But pe people still be showing. You can't it's funny Depending on who you tell, it ain't gonna be too too different. Exactly.

Tonee (05:28.782)
So you you kinda

You gotta be a little bit more specific. You may have to be a little bit more specific. But I'd be like, some jeans that ain't got no cuts in them, and a t shirt is usually fine. You do not have to dress in a suit or anything like that. But if you want to dress up nice in a suit, you can. so yes, prep your client. And then the the slash of that on the checklist is prep yourself. Are you prepared? Do you know where you need to go?

AE (05:44.323)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (06:00.31)
Do you know what courtroom you need to go to? Do you know what judge you are arguing in front of? do you have you talked to opposing counsel yet? Do you know if you even need to have this hearing? Because if there's anything a judge hates, it's when they get to court and the two lawyers haven't talked to each other. And if they would have just talked to each other, they could have figured it out themselves. And you brought the judge in for no reason? Don't do that. Check.

AE (06:00.642)
Mm-hmm.

AE (06:05.347)
Mm.

AE (06:13.259)
Mm.

AE (06:24.365)
Check if your case got moved, if it got rescheduled. You'll be mad if you go over there and like the clerk is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your case not on the doctor today. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (06:29.74)
Yeah, check the docket.

Exactly. Check the docket. Another way to prepare yourself, are you bringing exhibits, right? If you're bringing exhibits, was there a submission deadline? Is there a specific way to submit the exhibits? Did you review all of the pleadings thus far to make sure you're not missing anything? Right? does your client have a copy of these pleadings to make sure that they're well informed before they get on the stand? you know, how do is your is your

AE (06:46.152)
Mm-hmm.

AE (06:52.631)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (07:02.602)
hearing binder prepped. I like to have a hearing binder with all the pleadings. I like to know I like to have the full docket of pleadings. So sometimes I have multiple binders with me, even if it's just a status hearing, because you never know when opposing counsel is gonna pull some crazy crap. But I like to have all my pleadings. Go ahead.

AE (07:13.347)
Mm-hmm.

AE (07:17.207)
Yeah. Yeah. Also no a good tip to for me, depending on what the hearing is, you never know how long it's gonna go. So if you're a person who uses your laptop or your phone or your iPad, bring a charger. I've definitely been in in c in court and my laptop has died and I forgot to bring my charger. Either if you need to buy two charges, like one you keep in the office and one you keep in your bag so that never happens to you, that's pivotal and that that and that's

Tonee (07:30.702)
Your charger.

Tonee (07:43.599)
Do it. It's a good investment. Yeah. And it could also be helpful to get there early because if you are planning on producing exhibits, some courts have a system set up where you have to like connect to Google Chrome to show it on the TV. If they're allowing like virtual hearings and stuff like that, play with that stuff early because you don't want to run out of time with your hearing because you had to spend 30 minutes figuring out how to connect things to laptop.

AE (07:46.337)
Yeah, it's a good investment. Yeah.

AE (07:51.458)
Yes.

AE (07:58.402)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

AE (08:05.504)
Yeah.

AE (08:11.095)
No.

Tonee (08:11.104)
It really does depend on the court, but some courts are s are just getting into the new age of technology and figuring out how to show exhibits in that way. So make sure you you get there early. I like to get to court like an hour early. I like to get there an hour early. I don't like to stress about if I I feel like a half an hour is not enough time. I like getting there an hour early. I can, you know, drink my water, I can use the restroom, I could see how I could check the ear the the hearing before mine, see the temperament of the judge, how

AE (08:20.119)
Yeah.

AE (08:31.788)
Yeah.

AE (08:38.851)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (08:40.714)
The judge look happy, the judge look mad, how how how the judge look and I could do all that. and that now helps me. Mm-hmm.

AE (08:45.931)
Yeah. That's a great that's a great point to see, depending on what the again depending on it always depends. But depending on what judge you have or what type of hearing it is, it would be helpful to ask a colleague or to ask a friend, like, hey, can I sit in with you just to see 'cause the temperament of the judge matters. It's out the gate if the judge obvious you should always stand when you adjust a judge, but knowing the little things, does a judge care so much about whether I sit or stand? Does a judge care about projection? If if if you're in a hearing and the judge was like,

Tonee (08:51.928)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (09:06.059)
Right.

AE (09:14.371)
counsel, can you please speak up? Now you know I better project in my hearing because I don't want the judge telling me to speak up because that's a embarrassing. So it's like little things like that. You get to know what type of judge you have. Yeah. That's important.

Tonee (09:18.914)
Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. And well mo most hearings are public, right? So you you don't really have to a ask. Most hearings are public. You can go sit down and see how they're doing. Another reason why I like to go an hour before is because sometimes the the case before you is arguing the exact same issues as you, but they might be arguing in in favor or against.

AE (09:30.96)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You can go sit down, yeah.

Yeah.

AE (09:45.891)
Mm yeah.

Tonee (09:51.917)
the what you're arguing for. So if I'm listening and I'm like, dang, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get I'm trying to argue that grandma is a de facto parent and they're trying to argue that grandma is a de facto i isn't a gr a de facto parent, but their facts are similar. I now gotta figure out how am I gonna swing this argument, right? And and it's helpful because now I knew in advance that the judge had heard this. because I don't wanna I don't wanna you know I don't want to come up with an argument just out of the blue. I want to make it clear well I actually have case law that supports

AE (09:56.043)
Yeah.

AE (10:09.867)
Mm.

Yeah. It was good.

Tonee (10:21.802)
Why grandma's a de facto parent, stuff like that. So prep your client, prep yourself. Shout out to grandma.

AE (10:24.171)
Right. Shout out to grandma. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Numero dos. Know your facts slash courtroom rules. Every single time I was like sweating balls, stressed out of my mind for court, were the times I was I didn't know my facts, so I was unprepared. Like I always felt uneasy. I always felt like I don't know how this is gonna go.

Tonee (10:50.644)
Yep. Yep.

AE (10:54.049)
When I knew I did not prepare. When I prepare, I feel so much calmer. I go into it with so much confidence because I know my facts. Make sure you're reading through all the reports. Make sure you've spoken to all the witnesses. Making sure you've reviewed all this discovery. Know it back and forth better than anyone. And our professors would tell us this. Our professors would tell us this in law school to remind us why we should be confident, especially in mock trial. They would say,

You know your facts. You know the facts. And just go out and do your thing. Just go out and do your direct. Do your do your you know the facts already. Stop being so much in your head. But you can't be so much in your head if you're not prepared. If you don't know the facts, if you don't know the trajectory and where to go. So reading through it with a fine tooth code, being able to and what's helpful to me is when I go to a colleague for with a specific issue in the case and they obviously need to know what the case is about.

I know how well I know the facts is when I'm in their in their office telling them about the case and I'm like, okay, I don't know that. Okay, I should have I should have been able to say the date for this one. I should have said I should have I should have been able to know what time of day it was for this part of the story. Or even they would ask questions and be like, so what part of town was this? Or how many people were there? And when I and when I have to go, damn, I actually don't know that.

Tonee (12:01.758)
Right, right, right.

Tonee (12:20.44)
Yeah.

AE (12:21.475)
I was like, damn, I to go back and check that. That's where you know you have some holes. Like that's where you okay. You don't know your facts. So you gotta go back. Okay, let me find let me make sure know the time. Let me make sure I know how many people are there. But that that helps. Cause you're not gonna know off the off the jump. I have a trial coming up and it's like I I don't know the facts, but I know I need to sit down. It's I have time. Don't worry. Don't worry, guys.

Tonee (12:23.118)
Yeah, you don't know your facts. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. It does.

Tonee (12:40.051)
lot. lot. lot.

AE (12:46.295)
It was just aside to me. It was just aside me. I have time, guys. I ha I have time, guys. I have time. I have time. But but the goal but but in in preparation for a trial, the goal is to first thing in my mind is Akeem, you better know your facts. Know these facts. I'm gonna start drilling it in. Yeah.

Tonee (12:48.11)
Okay. Okay. Okay. Exactly. And mm-hmm.

Tonee (13:01.046)
Your facts. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. One thing that's been helpful for me to make sure that I have a good sense of what my facts are, I create I don't know, I don't have a name for it, but I just kind of create a a hearing sheet that has and I create this as I'm as I'm opening my case. It has a case number, has clients name, client's date of birth, client's address, if client has any kids.

AE (13:20.739)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tonee (13:27.404)
Kids name, kids date of birth, the school the kids go to. I I understand when this the it has a quick little space to say when the kid is in the custodi is in the custody of mom versus dad. It has opposing parties information, w date of marriage if I need to know that, date of separation if I need to know that. It has the date that service was made when the complaint was filed. and then it has just kind of like brief facts of like what we're arguing. And that's a template.

AE (13:31.583)
Mm.

AE (13:42.413)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (13:56.503)
that I created for each of my cases so that anytime I'm going into a hearing or if I need somebody to cover for me, I can just hand them this template. I update it. I update it at the end of each hearing so that we have new facts. It has a it has a timeline of like the hearings we had. and it's just very helpful for me to keep to keep myself in mind, especially when you have tons of cases. When you have multiple cases it exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

AE (13:58.02)
Mm-hmm.

AE (14:11.853)
Yeah.

AE (14:18.399)
And it's good for procedural history too. When you have to write your procedural history of the motion, you to go back and figure all that is annoying. So for you to have that out, that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (14:26.132)
Exactly. I try to create as I go. And and it's just it's just really helpful because now I don't have to cipher through a bunch of documents to figure out when stuff is, what happened, and all that stuff. I like to put what were the orders that were made real just real quick. I'm not writing the full order thing, but like what happened just real quick. Just so I have all of that information. Especially like like you said, if I'm asking somebody to take on this case or take on a hearing for me, I like to make sure that I'm giving them all the information. I don't want to set nobody up to have to work harder than they need to.

AE (14:33.749)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

AE (14:43.715)
Mm-hmm.

AE (14:53.819)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you don't want to be that person. Yeah. Yeah. That's real. And along with that is courtroom rules. And and obviously if this is your first one, it'll probably be best for you to ask somebody, like, because for me going into my first hearing, you still need to know, like, the clerk might ask you, like you might have to come up and check in, or you might have to s what table to sit at, what chair to sit in.

Tonee (14:57.526)
You don't. You don't. Yeah.

AE (15:22.135)
Like all those courtroom rules, who speaks first, you should know who should speak first, all stuff. Like that matters. And you're gonna mess up, you're gonna have different things goes on, but as much as you c as much as you can control, you control. So you could go to a colleague or like like we said earlier, sit in, get there early on an earlier case and see when that starts. See where their lawyers, where their attorneys go when they walk in. I know for a lot of f in in my practice

Tonee (15:35.81)
Yeah.

AE (15:51.058)
most of the turns you check in and you sit down behind the bench or you walk in, you just sit in the courtroom. All the different depending on where you practice, it all is all different. But knowing the practices of the courtroom that's not written down anywhere is important for you to know. Yeah.

Tonee (16:03.656)
Right. Right. Right. It's it's h also helpful. I still do housekeeping matters. Like that's something we learned during mock trial. Shout out to James King and and Andrew and Kendall and Jovena. and Matt. W we or no, Randall. we I was like wrong person. I think his name's Randall Matthews, but I can't remember.

AE (16:11.467)
Mm-hmm.

AE (16:14.943)
Mm. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

AE (16:25.616)
I was like, yeah, cause you you were in watch out before me, so I was like, Maybe you had a mat. I didn't know I wouldn't have a mat.

Tonee (16:29.074)
Exactly. No, no, no. But shout out to the mock trial crew. because they taught they taught us that when you are when the case when the hearing has started and you're before the judge, you basically can ask the judge, how would they like you to be in this hearing? Can you use the well of the court? Can I do I need to ask to approach the witness every time?

AE (16:33.91)
Yeah, yeah.

AE (16:49.366)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (16:53.324)
Do you prefer I stand up every time I'm speaking? Like that that's a valid question to ask because some judges will start to get frustrated with you every time you stay, especially the guys, because y'all gotta like button up your suit before you talk. Y'all like stand up and then you button up your suit and then you're like talking. It's like, why are you doing all that? But asking the judge if you need to do that, going over housekeeping matters is really can be really helpful as well. And I like to have a cheat sheet.

AE (17:04.333)
Yeah.

AE (17:16.245)
Yeah. Mm. Yeah.

Tonee (17:20.726)
I have a cheat sheet. What is in my housekeeping matters? What are the things I'm gonna ask my judge? I have a cheat sheet of my mops. When I'm entering evidence, my my mark offer PS, something like that. I I have it down pal. I don't actually remember what the thing stands for anymore. Present, stipulate, something like that. yeah, so submit, submit, yeah, yeah. So having having your cheat sheet of you know, how you do things, like how do I

AE (17:27.203)
Mm, yeah, yeah, mm.

Yeah. Yeah. Present, stipulate. Yeah, yeah. No submit. I think yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (17:49.653)
enter exhibits in does opposing counsel already have I like giving opposing counsel the exhibits when I walk in. When I walk in I'll hand I'll have a whole stack and I hand them all the exhibits and they're in the order and probably which I will call them. And then I'll say you know I don't have to hand opposing counsel I'll say marking what has been previous or offering what has been previously marked as plaintiff's exhibit one opposing counsel already has this

AE (17:58.1)
Mm.

AE (18:05.323)
Yeah.

AE (18:17.687)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (18:17.942)
Your Honor, may I approach things like that. So being able to kind of make sure you have you you know the deal for that type of stuff is really good too.

AE (18:25.269)
It's funny, I like how we're giving trial tips. I hope your first court appearance isn't a trial. That's crazy. I would hope so. Like maybe if you're in private if you if you if out of law school you you go into solo practice, you never know what what part your client is, but you have to make appearances, you to present you have to appear as

Tonee (18:30.392)
Facts, facts, facts.

Tonee (18:43.328)
But you can make you can you can you can offer evidence at status hearings. Cause status hearings can become evidentiary hearings and things like that. So Yeah. You should you I would prep You would hope. You would hope. When we're doing

AE (18:49.857)
Yeah, true. True. Yeah, if it goes, yeah, I mean, yeah. But but there should be some buffer hearings before you're there's this status, there's status conferences, there's witness count, there's this bullshit that liberates the different bullshit conferences, at least before. Yeah, if you if the first time you're walking into courtroom is to do openings the opening state that's a that's not that's not gonna happen. You're gonna yeah.

Tonee (19:06.528)
If you're in family law

Tonee (19:13.312)
If you're in family law, you get an order of protection hearing, which those go really quickly. in Arizona, they have from the time the defendant requests a hearing, five days. Five days. If you're getting thrown into family law, baby, you better be ready. You better be ready.

AE (19:23.259)
Mm-hmm. That's crazy. That's crazy. Family law is insane.

Yeah, that's crazy. yeah.

Tonee (19:34.37)
Better be ready. I I mean, I hope your first time in court is not a a hearing where you are walking through the whole mechanics, but you should be prepared. You should be prepared for anything. You really should.

AE (19:38.583)
But if you had family law

AE (19:43.438)
True, true. You're right. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. And part of and going back to knowing your facts, knowing your facts is helpful not just to know what's in your facts, but what to know is not in your facts. Because opposing counsel might try to throw a whole bunch of new stuff in there and we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That is facts not in evidence. There's no testimony of that. You cannot do that. But if you don't know your facts, the defense is gonna

Tonee (19:57.377)
What

Tonee (20:04.935)
Exactly. Exactly.

AE (20:10.785)
Is gonna throw whatever they want in it and you can't fact check it because you don't know what you're talking about. I remember this in Mac Tra. I remember in Mack Tow, me and my Mach Trial partner, the the post was either doing a opening or a cross or something. And they were they were literally making stuff up. And we had to speak of like Yana, that's obviously it's it's in the packet that Mach Chow gave us in the universe, and you literally can't do that. And they tell you how far you can like embellish and and assume certain things.

Tonee (20:13.834)
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Or you ask you say p mm.

Tonee (20:26.743)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tonee (20:38.153)
Yeah. Yeah.

AE (20:39.885)
But this person was just though but because you were prepared, we're like, Well, you're honored this facts not inevitable. They just making stuff up at this point. You wouldn't be able to do that if you if you're not prepped in that way. Go ahead. Yeah.

Tonee (20:44.084)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. No. I agree. And also, that that comes being able to know what's not in your facts, in your case facts, also comes from the preparation you do ahead of time. Like if you're you should be drafting across for the opposing party, right? Like

AE (21:01.452)
Mm-hmm.

AE (21:11.468)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (21:11.618)
There are questions that you should be able to ask. You should cross leading questions. Every question I write down in my cross, I connect to an exhibit. I have to be able to impeach you, right? I if if you're gonna sit here and lie, I have to be able to impeach you. And I and you have to keep your your thoughts straight about who you're getting information from. You're getting inform useful information from your client who can give you narratives. You're you're holding the opposing party to what you already have.

AE (21:22.613)
Nice. Yeah. Yep.

Mm.

Tonee (21:41.506)
Right. I'm not getting a lot of new information from the opposing party because I should have what I need. Discovery should have given me that.

AE (21:42.147)
Mm-hmm.

AE (21:46.114)
What yep. Yep. Yeah. Don't don't pay attention to the movies where like the witness comes in with this brand new and I did see him do it. And I did Rob is like, all right, come on, son. Like Yeah. All right. Next one. dress to impress. Make sure you wash yourself, man. Take a bath. Brush your teeth. Get good sleep.

Tonee (21:58.263)
It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen.

Tonee (22:07.572)
Impress

AE (22:14.855)
Eye your clothes. Polish your shoes.

Tonee (22:17.022)
like the people would be like, that's a given but some of y'all You know that meme where it's like the dude in like tennis shoes and jeans and then it's like when you know you're going to jail

AE (22:30.979)
Guys, it's real. Drewski skits, it is accurate. People lawyers be coming up in there looking disheveled. Roll out of bed. Tie not tie properly. You got the one collar up. You'll be surprised.

Tonee (22:34.798)
Bro. Bro.

Looking a hella mess.

AE (22:49.005)
I don't wanna get into it, but you'll see how certain people get to get away with looking a certain type of way in courtroom and how certain people can't. So I'm gonna speak to all my black people out there, all my black men and women out there. Do not show up to court looking put together. Make sure everything is cut, shaven, whatever. And I'm and I'm not preaching to the choir type thing. There's moments where I I I've been needed a haircut and stuff like that. But as but again, as much as you can control.

Make sure you show up to court looking presentable. Yes. Especially your first appearance.

Tonee (23:22.686)
Yeah. And it's fun. I f I feel like especially your first experience for sure. It's it's fun to dress up and I know like everybody ain't got it to be able to be buying, you know, buying it all the suits and whatnot. But, you know, find find a way to make it work. Find a way to make it work and and sh dress to impress. I love seeing women in like colorful suits and cute blouses and stuff like that. 'Cause I I would love to create to to cre to

AE (23:27.03)
Yeah.

AE (23:33.634)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

AE (23:42.392)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (23:47.883)
add like fashionista to this field. I think it's kinda cool when I I like when I see male attorneys dressing like differently. Like if they just don't have that regular suit. They got a cool tie. They got the nice shoes. They got the what the little button thing that's called right here. Maybe but the cuff links. Yeah, they got all that stuff. The tie clip and whatnot. I think it's I think it's cool. And I think I think we should

AE (23:50.467)
Mm.

AE (23:58.252)
Mm-hmm.

AE (24:02.723)
Cufflings. The cufflings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I got a bit of a tacklip. Nah, facts. Facts. And shout out, yeah. Shout out to a previous guest on the whole lawyer, Katie and Townsend, entertainment lawyer out of New York. Gang Gang. Fire episode. Go check it out. her mentor told her how you dressed is how you will be addressed.

Tonee (24:11.7)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should take pride in our profession. We should take pride in our profession. So I think it's important to to show up how you wanna be. Yeah.

Tonee (24:32.014)
Mm-hmm.

AE (24:32.471)
Like it matters. We are visual creatures. We care about aesthetics and looks. If you wanna get into the whole shallowness and whatever, that's not the pot for it. But the fact of life is that people judge you off of your appearance. So how you dress is how you will be addressed. So if you come in looking crazy, there the it feels like there's a lack of trust. Like can I trust you? If if you if you s come in smelling stinky and your clothes is all out of whack, can I really trust you to handle this case? Can I really trust you to know what

the facts are of this case is or or how this case should move forward. But if you come in dressed well presentable, that immediately puts at ease the person who's looking at you, like, okay, may maybe I might be in in good hands. yeah. Dang, I have one more piece to say about dress to impress. also, this is your first appearance, it will help you with confidence. Like

Tonee (25:03.496)
Right. Right.

Tonee (25:14.594)
Facts.

Tonee (25:18.22)
Yeah. Bactoids.

AE (25:32.098)
It will help you starting your day with like being groomed well, putting on your suit, putting on your dress, doing whatever you you can. That helps you calm yourself because you took the time to prepare yourself. If you jumped out of bed, I had to wash my face, I had to how you think you're gonna be in court on your first court appearance. You're gonna be just like that in the courtroom. You're gonna be and all you had this world was was coffee, you got one sock on like how do you think that hearing is gonna go?

Tonee (25:51.931)
mess, yeah, yeah.

Tonee (26:00.637)
Right.

AE (26:01.087)
Even if it's a low stakes hearing, you might the first words that come out your mouth, you might start stuttering. It might be that's not a good look either. But if you took your time in the morning, your clothes was picked up from the night before, you woke up, did your devotion, did prayed, meditated, did whatever you needed to do, started your day on time, and your day started with calmness and ease, and you just got stuff done. And then that flows into the courtroom. What? You'll be flowing in there. You're gonna be just everything feels so nice.

Tonee (26:26.804)
Exactly. Exactly.

AE (26:29.879)
Something's gonna happen, something's gonna but you you're gonna be at a very good base level from the jump so that whatever comes, you're already at a good foundation. So that all matters.

Tonee (26:35.255)
Right.

Tonee (26:40.17)
Right. And it and d this might have gone under prep yourself, but I will say if you are having a first appearance, this is probably something your supervisor will require of you, but do not shy away from that moot. Like moot your moot your hearing. Moot even if it's just a status hearing, moot it. Even from the introdu even from the introduction where you're good morning, your honor, Tony Earl for the defendant, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

AE (26:45.613)
Mm-hmm.

AE (26:55.083)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tonee (27:06.19)
It's you'll be surprised people who come up in there and be like, Am I doing the defendant or the petitioner? And you you don't you don't know who you don't even know which side you're on. Like go ahead and run through what you're hoping your hearing will be like. So that way when you get into the hearing, there's a comfortability about it.

AE (27:11.071)
Yeah. Yeah.

AE (27:17.995)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That's real. I like that. Yeah, working your speaking voice. It's funny, I was talking to a friend who's also a pastor yesterday, and he was saying, even for him, speaking is a skill. People think that just because you have charisma and you have a great personality, that you're not gonna be a great lawyer and that you automatically just know how to do public speaking. That's not true. It is a skill. So even for pastors where

Tonee (27:27.862)
Mm-hmm.

AE (27:50.572)
We we sometimes see them like, that's just me that's that's just God given, because you just bring in the word and God speaking through you. Pastors work on their craft, they work on projection, they work on pacing and cadence and timing and storytelling. So, what do you think a lawyer needs to do? You're not gonna just go off of your good looks and your night your great personality. No, you need to be skillful at speaking. So when you're doing your your your first appearance.

Tonee (28:13.355)
Yeah.

AE (28:17.783)
You wanna make sure you're practicing those skills. What do you want? In the mirror, saying your like you said, saying your introduction, whatever you're arguing that day, speaking it out loud, recording yourself, recognizing where you're saying ums, recognizing where you don't know your facts, and going back and get a make sure that's in. Like that's all skill. That's not something that, you it's only somebody's born with, so I can't do it. No, you can do it too. You just have to put in the time, put in the reps, put in the work, it's all work.

Tonee (28:20.427)
Exactly.

Tonee (28:32.711)
Right, right, yeah, yeah.

Tonee (28:42.882)
You can do it. Exactly. Exactly.

AE (28:47.179)
You you are not special any less or more than anybody else who didn't just put in the time and effort to become a thing. Shannon Sharp. So last point, I watched, I don't know if you watched any Nightcap fans who are also the whole lawyer fans, who are Shannon Sharp and Ultra Cingle. These are Hall of Fame elite top one percent athletes in the world. And they said, I just had to work. This is work. Obviously, the the the genetics and all that stuff is good.

Tonee (28:55.583)
Right.

AE (29:15.597)
But they were like, bro, I was no better than anybody else at such and such college, at my my high school, whatever. I just outworked them. I just showed up every single day. I perfected the craft. That's why I'm here. Not because God ignited me to be this the Broncos tight end. No, like anybody could have been in that position if they just put a network. So yeah.

Tonee (29:18.261)
Bro.

Tonee (29:28.671)
Exactly.

Tonee (29:33.492)
Right. Right.

Tonee (29:39.279)
Exactly. And and humble yourself to know that where you are now, you can absolutely progress and get better. Like I'll I'll never forget. Anytime I get the opportunity to do like a speaking thing, like I the I was able to apply at GW to do be the graduation speaker for my master's program. And there was like another person who was picked as well. And so I go first and I'm like reading off of this paper. I I I'm ha I'm adding charisma where I can.

AE (29:46.547)
Yeah. So good, man. Yeah.

AE (29:59.011)
Yeah.

Tonee (30:07.468)
But it was, it was an okay speech, right? The guy who goes after me, I'm so glad he went after me, bro. He was so good, like so engaging. He didn't have no paper to read off. He was, he just was so good. And I said, That's how I want to speak. And and seeing the difference in him and myself, it didn't I didn't sit there and be like, you know what, maybe this isn't for me. I said, let me figure out how it what it takes to get to a point where he speaks.

AE (30:07.629)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

AE (30:14.306)
AE (30:19.923)
Mm.

AE (30:31.48)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (30:36.94)
And then I was able to do law school graduation class speaker. And I could already tell I was able to do better than where I was at GW. And the next time I speak, it's gonna be even better. And the next time it's even better, it's even better. It's a process. You can't count yourself out just because you aren't perfect at it yet. Right. It's a process. Keep going. Keep going.

AE (30:39.895)
Mm-hmm.

AE (30:48.17)
Yeah.

AE (30:54.336)
Yeah.

Yeah. Last story. I would a little tip. Watch comedians. Watch stand-up specials. I did a training for my job. It was like a trial boot camp. It's some of the best attorneys in the country. They came to this school to do a training for these young lawyers. And one of the attorneys who were presenting for that day, she did a presentation on what not to do.

Tonee (31:01.662)
Yeah.

Tonee (31:05.986)
Yeah.

AE (31:27.809)
In a closing argument. She starts her presentation doing a closing argument. And she she and her whole closing argument were all the things not to do. She hasn't taught us anything yet. She hasn't said, do not do that. She just starts doing the closing arguments. She so she goes, put yourself in the victim's shoes. What you do? You don't do that. You cannot do that. The defendant is a terrible person.

Tonee (31:32.822)
Mm.

Tonee (31:39.276)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tonee (31:49.974)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

AE (31:56.898)
He doesn't even go to church. He doesn't believe in God. And it's the we're dying laughing. Because without even her having to say these are the things you don't say in the closing arguments, we're picking out the things that you because once you hear it, you're like, yeah, you don't do that. You don't do that. And there's some things we missed. But she was like, I'm not gonna do the generic, like, now here are the things you let me introduce it in a new way and let me present an amazing presentation. And then after the closing arguments,

Tonee (31:57.197)
Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tonee (32:22.058)
Yeah, yeah.

AE (32:25.611)
After we're all busted out, dying laughing. I think we even clap for her. Then she starts telling, like then she goes to her slide. Beautifully done. And and when we spoke, we sp I spoke to her after, I was like, yo, do you like do you watch comedy? Because that felt like a whole set. She was like, I actually like try to I try to actually try to do like comedy on the weekends. Like I do watch a lot of comedians. And this is a well-accomplished attorney, chief, whatever of 20 years. You know what I'm saying? Like, so don't.

Tonee (32:28.926)
Yeah, mm, yeah.

Tonee (32:44.206)
Mm. That's dope. Yeah. Yeah.

AE (32:53.207)
Be if don't think that you only have to watch lawyers to get better at being a lawyer or to get better at being a presenter. Watch different crafts and different fields that deal with speaking because it's effective. Because when you go to a comedy show, you're locked in, you're drawn in, and you're dying, you're entertained. What do you think you're doing in a courtroom for 12 jurors? You're not trying to make them laugh. If you do make them laugh, that's a good tactic. You're not trying to make them laugh for 25 minutes, but.

Tonee (32:57.23)
Facts.

Tonee (33:03.274)
Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tonee (33:15.505)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

AE (33:20.961)
You're trying to get them locked in. You're trying get them engaged. And with this specific attorney, she was so speaking to her after she was so shy and timid, you could tell that she learned that. That's not something that came natural to her. So that was a great example of someone who though isn't naturally funny or naturally a public speaker. You can tell she just put in the time to build that skill. So for anybody out there, feel like you said it's too I love that you said that it's never too late to build those skills.

Tonee (33:22.664)
Exactly. Exactly.

Tonee (33:32.886)
Mm.

Tonee (33:39.703)
Right.

Tonee (33:45.31)
Mm.

AE (33:50.817)
It's never too late to get better at your craft. That's all.

Tonee (33:54.775)
All right. And that was dress to impress.

AE (33:57.43)
Yeah, yeah. I did not know Jess Repress would get that deep. You never know, man. That's good. You never know. Right, right.

Tonee (34:04.346)
Yo, went in a tangent, bro. Yes. All right. Next checklist item is greet the court reporter slash clerk. Do not walk into the courtroom and sit at your little table and get your little self done. And not first of all, don't walk in anywhere where people are present and not greet them. Okay. Now it's different if like you're walking in and there's a case.

AE (34:14.923)
Yeah. Yeah.

AE (34:22.573)
Yeah.

AE (34:29.769)
Right. Come on. You're Maray raisie, right?

Tonee (34:32.672)
Your mom your mama raised you right. Your mama or your daddy or your grandma, your auntie, whoever raised you, they done raised you right. Because you should especially like obviously if there's a case going on, don't be going in greeting people. But if you're walking in, nothing's happening, but the court reporter's there or the clerk is there.

AE (34:34.755)
Right.

AE (34:43.138)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (34:48.234)
Introduce yourself. You might not need anything from them, but introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Toney. I'm the attorney for such and such. That's it on this side, right? Okay. Hey, do you know if the judge is gonna want these exhibits and events? Would you like to pre mark anything? you know, and then just c call it a day, right? Like it's it doesn't have to be super deep, but definitely greet the workers at in the court in the courtroom.

AE (34:49.675)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

AE (35:12.447)
Yeah. Yeah. And 'cause

Dealing with a court reporter or a clerk that's annoyed with you isn't fun. You know what I'm saying? Like you just do again, it's just maintenance. It's just like things you just do on a daily basis so that you just have good report. You say good morning, you say hi on a consistent basis so that you just you're just nice to each other. If if you you rub the clerk the wrong way, or if you don't talk, or if you don't build that relationship, again, it don't gotta be too deep. And for some reason you get the clerk on your bad side.

Tonee (35:35.434)
Yeah.

AE (35:46.496)
Every time you go to that courtroom, every time you're in front of that judge, and they're like, okay, now now you gotta prep for a different thing. Now you gotta make sure you got everything in order because you might not get some help from the clerk. You just don't wanna deal with that. You don't want to always Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes you can't you can't avoid that because sometimes the clerk again, also you also gotta know how to navigate when a clerk is just having a bad day or is just busy and is annoyed. Especially at my first job dealing with the clerks, you just had to it's like an ebb and flow.

Tonee (35:50.197)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. You don't. You don't.

Tonee (36:05.197)
Yeah.

AE (36:15.907)
Cause especially if the docket is like very, very long. The clerk is annoyed and you need to ask the clerk a question. It's like playing double dutch. You gotta know when to jump in because she's handling different stuff. Like she's calling this person, throwing the papers, but you need to know when your case is being called because you have another here. So you gotta know when to jump in without her being looking like, like you're about to throw me up. But also you need to get your work done. So like you gotta do it.

Like you can't just be like, I'm gonna wait fifteen, twenty like no, you gotta find a way to jump in. But there's a nice way to do it. Excuse me. Can I ask a question real quick? I know you're busy. Be kind, be nice, be understanding. That's all.

Tonee (36:46.515)
Right. Right. You gotta do it.

Tonee (36:56.406)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's a pretty easy one. That's that's probably self explanatory. So the last checklist item. You wanna you wanna do it?

AE (36:59.339)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Last yep. Is write down questions. Write down questions. For me, and I do this even now because I'm I'm still learning. I want to get better at what I'm doing. So if you go into your first court appearance, you're not gonna know everything. You're even gonna be able to survive without knowing everything, but for your next hearing,

You don't want to just skate by or like barely make it by. You want to share up the areas that you didn't know. It's like in bar prep where like you got a question right by accident. Like you you just picked C because you didn't know the answer, but you somehow got it right. You may it may feel good, but you don't know the law. You don't you don't know why you got it right. So it's not gonna help you. So in court, if the judge asks you a question and you didn't know the answers, you legit didn't know, you just made something up, and the judge like I didn't move, the judge like moved on. It's like, okay, cool.

Tonee (37:47.807)
Right. Right.

AE (37:58.648)
You're like, whoo, I got through that one. I ain't like a fool. But you had no clue what you said. You write that that down. The judge asked about this 1983 claim. The judge asked about this fact or how this what time this person should come to court or this expert, like how we usually do expert witnesses. I had no clue how to answer that question. I said something, it it seemed to have like worked.

Tonee (38:01.002)
Right. Right.

AE (38:23.957)
I I don't think this is the actual qu answer. I don't know if this is actually accurate. Can you let me know if it's true or not? What else do I need to know about this thing? So for next time, when the judge brings up this issue or a different judge brings up this issue, which will happen, you're not guessing anymore. You're speaking from facts. You're speaking from knowledge. You're speaking from experience from that attorney you asked, or from that judge you asked after court. Because you could do that too. You could talk to the judge after court. So write down your question so that you can get better at what you do.

Tonee (38:26.125)
Right.

Tonee (38:41.208)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right. And in that same vein, while you're writing in your notepad, take notes. Take notes. Like I I like to like shorthand write things that the opposing party is saying. I like I kind of have to stay my hands moving because then I'll zone out. So I I was on out and be like, what do you say? So I I like to write down just like real quick things, what is the opposing party saying? 'Cause sometimes opposing party be lying and now I gotta speak to it.

AE (38:57.635)
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

AE (39:10.463)
Yeah. Yeah, no facts, facts, facts facts.

AE (39:22.443)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (39:24.012)
And I'll write it down, be like, yeah, I got I gotta clean up that real quick. So make sure you take notes as well. And in in I think along the lines of taking notes and writing questions, if you are in the thick of it in your first hearing and you don't know something, do not be afraid to say, Your Honor, I don't have an answer for that right now. But when we get done here, I will go find an answer and provide that to you. Do not don't sit up there.

AE (39:44.746)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, don't tell lies to the court.

Tonee (39:51.395)
Guessing and lying to the court. That's not a good look, especially at your first hearing. It would it would be far better for you to admit you don't know the answer, but you're gonna put the work in to go and find it. It would be far better for you to do that. Please, please, please, please, please. Do not be lying in the courthouse. That's how you get disbarred.

AE (39:55.812)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

AE (40:07.907)
Facts.

AE (40:12.577)
What was Right. And those are the five. So before we go we we recap the last five. Tell me about your first quarter pairs. No, I said before the recap. Yes. How was your first one?

Tonee (40:19.05)
A quick rook my first my first okay man my first court appearance was at DC court DC Superior Court and actually there's a there is actually no no no no no let me back up a little bit because I I was barred in the COVID era so my first court appearance was virtual it was virtual

AE (40:39.443)
Mm.

AE (40:43.651)
Mm, that might be true for a lot of people too. That's that makes sense, yeah. Wow, I didn't think about that. We I have some different tips for the virtu the first virtual appearancers too, yeah. But that's true.

Tonee (40:47.969)
It was virtual and

Tonee (40:53.062)
Man, my first court appearance went horribly, horribly wrong. Yeah. Because it was a cut it was a custody modification. I had a co-part, I had a co-counsel. And it w I had done mock trial, but I d I don't really know like what type of experience my co counsel had when it came to like presenting a case. So I felt like I had

AE (40:57.183)
Really?

Dang, what happened?

AE (41:05.347)
Mm-hmm.

AE (41:17.493)
Mm. Yeah.

Tonee (41:21.824)
A little bit more comfortability being in the courthouse. And there were things that needed to get out, but my co my my partner just like couldn't get them out in the way that they needed to get out. But the judge, she was a feisty little one. And she was by she was very, very, very by-book. So you how like when you have two attorneys.

AE (41:36.204)
Yeah.

Tonee (41:45.345)
On one side, one person does like opening and direct, and then the other person does cross and closing, and you kind of like split them. So we kind of had it split like that. There was something my my co counsel didn't know. And so I spoke up because I knew what it was. And the judge like yelled at me and was like, do not speak out of turn. Who's providing the the direct at this time? Yada yada yada. And I was like, but I had the answer.

AE (41:51.339)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm.

AE (42:04.117)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (42:15.051)
and so you know, a and in my advice to somebody who's kind of it was very strict.

AE (42:18.231)
That's so actually that's so strict too. Like I I I what what when you're doing the back and forth, usually unless it's like a middle of a examination, like it should you should be able to both answer or or address the court if you're co counsel. Yeah. Yeah.

Tonee (42:32.408)
think so. I would think so. But I will say like what I learned from that is we I don't think we were in the same place, my co-counsel and I. So there was an ability for me to just like write a note and pass the answer on to them. So what I would say, what I would say for that is have like a chat box, whether it's like Google chat or something like that, that you can easily access while in front of the computer that each of you can see as it pops up so that you can feed information to each other when it's the other person's time to present.

AE (42:48.075)
Mm.

AE (42:58.636)
Mm.

Tonee (43:02.54)
That probably would have been helpful for us, especially because we had such a strict judge. But the the real reason why that hearing went so wrong is because as much as we prepared that client, he went off script tenfold. And we really had us fighting for our lives to get to get the outcome we were hoping for.

AE (43:07.617)
Mm.

AE (43:15.375)
Mm.

AE (43:23.811)
my god. Maybe I do extra work. Yeah.

Tonee (43:27.232)
We did because we had to re rehabilitate him. We had to rehabilitate him because he just the and and that was a thing that later on in my career I started stressing to my clients. Opposing counsel wants to see you angry. Opposing counsel wants you frustrated, wants you angry. And I was always telling, don't look at opposing counsel. I I don't care how awkward you think it looks, I want you staring at that judge the whole time. Every answer that comes out of your mouth.

AE (43:30.644)
Six

AE (43:42.859)
Mm.

AE (43:54.003)
Tonee (43:56.697)
To the judge. Every question you hear should literally be going in your ear. I don't want no eye contact with the post counsel. I want you looking at the judge. I really had to figure out how to stress that later on in my career because clients just wouldn't get it. It's like you're giving them exactly what they want. They're calling you combative and controlling, and you sitting over here, I object. Why the hell are you objecting on the stand? Who gave you that authority? Who told you you could do that?

AE (43:57.963)
Yeah.

AE (44:03.052)
Yeah.

AE (44:07.103)
Well. Yeah.

AE (44:17.903)
Ha ha ha.

Tonee (44:25.592)
I I specifically told you not to do that. I told you you had five and you remember those five answers we went bro I said there's five things you could say on cross Object is not one of them

AE (44:30.817)
Who told you to object? my gosh.

AE (44:38.915)
It's like Patrick Hugh was coaching his his his player and he was like, Who told you to shoot that shot? He said, Do you do you practice that shot? Who what do you practice that shot? Who told you to object? What have you ever seen a witness object ever in your life? Do you even practice that shot? Yo, that's so funny. And I think it also goes to like KYP, like know your player. Like if you if you're working with a co counsel on an assignment, on a trial, whatever.

Tonee (44:43.373)
Uh-huh.

Tonee (44:54.535)
Just stupid things, bro. Stupid things. But yeah, that my first hearing was a mess.

AE (45:09.097)
Sit down with your co-council. I this a given, it's gonna happen, but you sit down, no know the character and the person, personality of your co-counsel. How do they like to communicate? Is it over teams, is it over email? Know what their strengths and weaknesses are and be honest about that so that you guys could put on the best possible trial you can, best best possible case you can. So that that's definitely important. yeah, my my my first court appearance was in DC Superior Court.

Tonee (45:29.782)
Yeah. Yeah.

AE (45:35.35)
It was very low stakes. I'm pretty sure it was like a set either sentencing or a plea. Very, very low stakes. You don't say much. But I was very much, I was prepped. I was making sure everything was good. I know what I knew what the case was. I knew what time it was. I knew what courtroom it was. I had my suit on. I actually have a video. I think I said it to you. I have a video of you recording myself. It's like a game is your first trial. Like it felt good. It felt it felt cool to be like because it's the moment where you feel like all the training wheels are off. Like in law school, if you do go in court, you're obviously a law student.

Tonee (45:52.692)
Mm. It was dope.

AE (46:03.939)
Or you're you're gonna be under a a barred attorney, even if you do somehow speak, I don't know if certain states has pr programs where law students can speak in court, you're still practicing under like a certified attorney, all these different type of things. so to be able to go in court on your own, trillion wheels are off, nobody you're not shadowing anybody, nobody's doing it with you, is nerve wracking. Like, damn, I'm really out here by myself. but the moment you I stood up

Tonee (46:14.657)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Tonee (46:28.308)
It is. Yeah.

AE (46:32.097)
introduce myself, it just all just came together and it was it was cool. it was it was a good time. And then now you now now it's just reps. Now the nerve's out way, the first time is out the way. Now it's how can I get better? How can I improve? How can I perform better? So yeah. Yeah. And we have no doubt that that's how you guys are gonna good gonna do. If you follow these five tips, she's about to break down to you right now. Recap for you right now.

Tonee (46:36.856)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tonee (46:47.104)
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And those are

Tonee (46:58.638)
All right, recap. So prep your client, prep yourself, check. Know the facts of your case, slash the courtroom rules, check. Dress to impress. Check. Greet the courtroom reporter, clerk, slash clerk, check, and then take notes. And there is one thing I kind of want to add just for the ladies, because

AE (47:05.034)
Mm-hmm.

AE (47:23.127)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Tonee (47:25.706)
one of my earlier hearings when we were when we were for I I we had the virtual trial and then we were we kind of were able to go back in court not too long after that. And I was it was like I was coming on my time of the month. I was coming on my time of the month. And I had a I had a case that was just so sad. It was a really sad case. the the the my clients

AE (47:32.011)
Mm.

AE (47:35.552)
Yeah.

AE (47:41.666)
Mm-hmm.

AE (47:46.451)
Mm.

Tonee (47:53.067)
daughter had passed away leaving bef behind a child and my client was trying to get b basically be determined to be the guardian of the child. But the child had a father. and from my client's POV, the father was not very involved. Like the father it the c my client wanted the father had visitation, but my client, from her point of view view, she should have been the main one to to watch the child.

AE (48:03.768)
Mm.

AE (48:20.065)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tonee (48:21.708)
And that's a hard argument. That is a hard argument to win. When there is a parent who, you know, they have constitutional rights to their children. that is really hard to say that they should not be the one to decide, you know, all things regarding their child. and so I knew we had a losing case. Like I knew we had a case where it's like at best I could probably get, you know, my client visitation, but the idea that sh she was confident. She she felt like she deserved to have custody over this child.

AE (48:25.407)
Yeah, yeah.

AE (48:35.468)
Yeah.

Tonee (48:50.024)
and so we go to the hearing and my client is acting a mess. Clearly, my client was just like mentally just I mean, she just lost her child. She just lost her child, and now she's having to go to court in hopes of not losing the kind of like this last piece of her child, right? and so at I I I think the hearing went well. There was a lot of me calming down my child, but afterwards, I just broke down in tears. I broke down in tears and I knew it was because of my

AE (48:59.36)
Yeah.

AE (49:05.314)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (49:19.532)
my time of month more than anything. I knew it was because because I'm sitting here like, I'm a thug. Why am I crying in this courthouse right now? Bro. And so I really just want to talk to, you know, to to the ladies of the of the legal world. I do of the in the law, I do want us to be reminded that w we really should take that time to care for ourselves when we are dealing with heavy cases because we don't have the ability to

AE (49:20.787)
Yeah.

AE (49:26.231)
How do you start to his yeah.

AE (49:33.42)
Of the law.

Tonee (49:47.021)
you know, control our emotions and our home hormones and things like that. And when your time of the month is coming, that can get in the I had I have snapped at an opposing council when it was like when I knew it was like, I'm not really frustrated with you, but you just called me today. And I didn't really need any calls today. And I really I snapped because the the opposing council was giving me a hard time. I yelled at her. And then like af after I yelled at her, because she was like, I'm I'm she was like shocked and I was like, I am so sorry.

AE (49:50.796)
Mm.

AE (50:09.345)
Yeah.

Tonee (50:15.35)
It's not you. It's me. I'm having a really bad day today. Can I please give you a call at another time? I I I really am sorry. And I had to apologize. And so I I just want to remind the women in law that like we got to give ourselves more grace. We have to give ourselves more grace. There's a lot going on in our bodies that can affect how we show up in in this world. And it will never excuse our behavior, but we we should take the time to kind of think.

AE (50:21.771)
Mm.

AE (50:29.688)
Mm.

AE (50:33.197)
Mm-hmm.

Tonee (50:43.506)
And meditate on how we're showing up in a certain moment. If we have the course correct, do it in the time, right? Course correct in that time. I hated crying in front of my client because she was already going through something so, so, so, so, so sad. but she understood. She understood. and so I had to give myself grace to know that like I'm I'm only human. I could not control those tears come once a month, like clockwork. I can't control it. Okay. So just just be mindful. If if if you're going to a first court appearance, you're a lady-in-law.

AE (50:49.335)
Mm.

Ha ha

Yeah. Yeah.

AE (51:03.689)
Right. Right. Yeah. That's real.

Tonee (51:10.55)
you you're somebody who is I am very heavily affected by by my time of the month emotionally. if you're somebody like that, just give yourself grace. Know that it's okay. This is just this is how things roll. And it's okay.

AE (51:14.961)
Ha ha ha.

AE (51:21.291)
That's real. Yeah. And for the men, man up. That's all. All right. this has been another episode of The Whole Lawyer. We hope these tips have helped you. This checklist has helped you. Take it with you. Go in the comments. If s any of these checklists will help work for you, drop it in the comments. Tell us a story of how it worked. And other checklist items, please let us know. We will love to know. And yeah.

Tonee (51:24.907)
Yeah.

Tonee (51:42.23)
Or if you have other checklist items.

Tonee (51:50.656)
And don't forget to like, follow, subscribe, all the things that Akeem said at the start of this episode. Check out the Whole Lawyer website at the Whole Lawyer.com where you'll see our episodes posted there. Be on the lookout for merch. We got some merch coming to the store soon. So we'll have some t-shirts and some mugs for y'all to purchase. And

AE (51:50.883)
Yeah.

Tonee (52:14.688)
Also be on the lookout for a newsletter that you can subscribe to where we will be housing fun information for all of our audience. So keep doing what you do and supporting how you do. And we'll see you on the next episode of The Whole Lawyer.

AE (52:27.903)
Mm-hmm.